I understand your points but still must respectfully disagree. There is nothing "cavalier" about my use of the term, "Texas Taliban." I call balls and strikes, without prejudice or passion. When any administration behaves in the immoral and humiliating way that Gregg Abbott and the Texas GOP do, they have shown themselves to be harsh Theocrats. Very few things rile my American identity than theocracy. James Madison was adamant about keeping religion out of government. Abbott and his folks, especially in the Trump era are the cruelest joke played on American democracy since the Civil War. If you like, I will gladly go through the TX GOP platform and outline the theocracy if you care to and debate as well. That's how democracy works after all. Considering your expertise, you should have recognized it far before I have. This is why I have used the phrase, "your political identity." I couldn't be more ashamed of our Texas leadership for the past several years.
And I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of James Madison. Given the centrality of the Church (in many of its diverse and variegated expressions) in the religious, cultural and political development of 18th century American colonial intellectual thought, Madison would appear to be a distinct outlier from his contemporaries on this topic. Thankfully his thoughts on this subject have not prevailed in the history of our country for if they had we would have been much the poorer for it.
I do have an additional question about your point regarding Madison. Do you deny that he was adamant about keeping religion out of government? Surely you donтАЩt disagree that the Constitution he gets the credit for, was not ratified by a large majority of the other delegates or that the Scotsmen from the enlightenment held sway only over Madison?
Normally I would be happy to provide sources that support my conclusions but since you have the recurring tendency of arbitrarily rejecting any data that disagrees with your opinions I will take a pass on your offer. In addition, your last reply changed the subject. This would indicate you had no answer to my central point on the centrality of the colonial Churches in the formation of early American intellectual and political thought and which formed the foundational principles for both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.
Hahahahha my friend, your tired old false narrative about sources was expected. I do appreciate the good laugh this morning. Of course, I reject your sources of the Daily Caller, Daily Mail and the Heritage Foundation. These are all publications rated either of far-right bias or conspiracy theory rags. Nice try though.
Actually, it was you that changed the subject. I merely asked you to clarify your unsupported point that makes "Madison a distinct outlier." Either you have sources for this, or you don't. The topic in the original article used Madison as the protagonist for progressive religious, cultural and political changes in our then fledgling nation. This is what we have been discussing throughout.
For clarification my good friends, my reference to rejecting sources is not a "tired old false narrative" but merely a comment based on your previously observed patterns of behavior when responding to persons who question your opinions. And for the record I am much more widely read than just these three "straw men" examples you cited.
As to your assessment of the Enlightenment's significance on the development of 18th century colonial American political thought and its influence on the Founders such as James Madison, you are correct in your conclusions in so far as you go. However the contributions of this disparate collection of dyspeptic Scots still pissed off about Culloden Field was only one intellectual stream coursing through the colonial consciousness. To gain a fuller and more complete understanding one must also include the role of the colonial Churches in shaping American intellectual thought in the decades leading up to 1776. A significant sub-set of this topic is the role of religious revival (usually described as The Great Awakening) and its impact on colonial culture. This latter phenomena is most often identified with the achievements of Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield.
Given the centrality of the Church in all its variegated and diverse expressions in Colonial America (to the point that George Washington requested and the Continental Congress assented on 29 July 1775 to create a Chaplain Corps with one chaplain assigned to each Continental Army regiment and to pay their salary as a captain out of the public purse) it seems counter intuitive that these same Founders would then throw the Church out of the public square after independence was won from Great Britain. It is this well documented and attested evidence stretching across 167 years (1609 to 1776) that make me question your representation of James Madison as a flaming Jacobin.
Have a great weekend. We do need to do breakfast (I have my mobility back) sometime soon.
I understand your points but still must respectfully disagree. There is nothing "cavalier" about my use of the term, "Texas Taliban." I call balls and strikes, without prejudice or passion. When any administration behaves in the immoral and humiliating way that Gregg Abbott and the Texas GOP do, they have shown themselves to be harsh Theocrats. Very few things rile my American identity than theocracy. James Madison was adamant about keeping religion out of government. Abbott and his folks, especially in the Trump era are the cruelest joke played on American democracy since the Civil War. If you like, I will gladly go through the TX GOP platform and outline the theocracy if you care to and debate as well. That's how democracy works after all. Considering your expertise, you should have recognized it far before I have. This is why I have used the phrase, "your political identity." I couldn't be more ashamed of our Texas leadership for the past several years.
My best,
And I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of James Madison. Given the centrality of the Church (in many of its diverse and variegated expressions) in the religious, cultural and political development of 18th century American colonial intellectual thought, Madison would appear to be a distinct outlier from his contemporaries on this topic. Thankfully his thoughts on this subject have not prevailed in the history of our country for if they had we would have been much the poorer for it.
I do have an additional question about your point regarding Madison. Do you deny that he was adamant about keeping religion out of government? Surely you donтАЩt disagree that the Constitution he gets the credit for, was not ratified by a large majority of the other delegates or that the Scotsmen from the enlightenment held sway only over Madison?
Ratified rather than тАЬnot ratified тАЬ
Well my friend, I look forward to your sources to discuss this.
Normally I would be happy to provide sources that support my conclusions but since you have the recurring tendency of arbitrarily rejecting any data that disagrees with your opinions I will take a pass on your offer. In addition, your last reply changed the subject. This would indicate you had no answer to my central point on the centrality of the colonial Churches in the formation of early American intellectual and political thought and which formed the foundational principles for both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.
Hahahahha my friend, your tired old false narrative about sources was expected. I do appreciate the good laugh this morning. Of course, I reject your sources of the Daily Caller, Daily Mail and the Heritage Foundation. These are all publications rated either of far-right bias or conspiracy theory rags. Nice try though.
Actually, it was you that changed the subject. I merely asked you to clarify your unsupported point that makes "Madison a distinct outlier." Either you have sources for this, or you don't. The topic in the original article used Madison as the protagonist for progressive religious, cultural and political changes in our then fledgling nation. This is what we have been discussing throughout.
Wishing you and yours the best for the weekend
For clarification my good friends, my reference to rejecting sources is not a "tired old false narrative" but merely a comment based on your previously observed patterns of behavior when responding to persons who question your opinions. And for the record I am much more widely read than just these three "straw men" examples you cited.
As to your assessment of the Enlightenment's significance on the development of 18th century colonial American political thought and its influence on the Founders such as James Madison, you are correct in your conclusions in so far as you go. However the contributions of this disparate collection of dyspeptic Scots still pissed off about Culloden Field was only one intellectual stream coursing through the colonial consciousness. To gain a fuller and more complete understanding one must also include the role of the colonial Churches in shaping American intellectual thought in the decades leading up to 1776. A significant sub-set of this topic is the role of religious revival (usually described as The Great Awakening) and its impact on colonial culture. This latter phenomena is most often identified with the achievements of Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield.
Given the centrality of the Church in all its variegated and diverse expressions in Colonial America (to the point that George Washington requested and the Continental Congress assented on 29 July 1775 to create a Chaplain Corps with one chaplain assigned to each Continental Army regiment and to pay their salary as a captain out of the public purse) it seems counter intuitive that these same Founders would then throw the Church out of the public square after independence was won from Great Britain. It is this well documented and attested evidence stretching across 167 years (1609 to 1776) that make me question your representation of James Madison as a flaming Jacobin.
Have a great weekend. We do need to do breakfast (I have my mobility back) sometime soon.